Classical Music & Opera Forums

karlhenning wrote:That looks like an invitation to argue wherein may consist true greatness, Brian ; )

karl: I reckon the answer would be the same if the parameter was dropped from "truly great" to (say) adequate professional principal singer in a leading house.

i.e. Between none and not very many.

pczipott wrote:Why on earth do critics routinely describe this symphony as problematic? I find it the most lovable of them all (except, perhaps, for the 4th).

I'm happy to read what you said about the Seventh, as well as ScottMorrison's second on this. I have a liking for the finale but what comes before is for me...uh, problematic. Just joking, what do I know que sais-je? I am more in the general listener category, a few stations below the both of you, so it's probably more of a struggle for me. But, seriously, I'm encouraged to know that the both of think so highly of it. It will help me to keep trying.

ACD

Raising my hand timidly...

Thanks for the link. I did check it out and think it's a great idea but, moi, I don't need anymore music sources than I have.

A.C. Douglas wrote:The Berlin Philharmoniker's Digital Concert Hall

Link

ACD

It's an impressive website, no doubt, but since I am not a fan of either Barenboim or Rattle, I think I'll abstain for now. Also, they are competing with the FREE concert website of the NY Philharmonic for my attention, plus all my CDs.

http://nyphil.org/concertsTicks/video_features.cfm

http://nyphil.org/attend/broadcasts/index.cfm?page=broadcastsByMonth

I had known about the BPO digital concert hall for some time. It is one of many impressive orchestral websites (I've grown to like the SFSO's explorations of the music, too); but I agree with manh that I have enough other ways of accessing music (I still prefer CDs to other electronic means) that I won't bother spending money on a subscription. I really should keep track of their concerts, though, and perhaps pay to listen to one or two of particular interest.

My other issue is that I tend to use the computer as a tool for ... computation (and writing, etc), rather than as a substitute stereo. I have not gotten into the habit of listening to music on the computer at all.

Scott, I share your relief in having company about the Mahler 7th.

Peloux, don't sell yourself short! When I first heard the 7th, I found the first movement a bit diffuse; but after a very few listenings, it also "clicked" for me; and the inner movements struck home right from the first exposure. Whether it clicks or not is probably not a measure of "expertise", but of taste (my own expertise consists almost solely of having heard, and remembered, an awful lot of music, though not nearly so much as Scott).

The only part of the Mahler Seven that hasn't really won me over is the finale. Not that it's bad but it just doesn't live up to the previous movements, especially the first movement which is one of my favourite things by Mahler.

kashania wrote:The only part of the Mahler Seven that hasn't really won me over is the finale. Not that it's bad but it just doesn't live up to the previous movements, especially the first movement which is one of my favourite things by Mahler.

Hmmm! This is one I owe to Cliftwood in 2 weeks for my Elektra longing at Christmastime. We do these sorts of trade-offs.

Elektra and Christmas. Now there's a well-matched pairing.

Actually, one of the Christmas gifts I remember most vividly from my youth was the Solti recording of Elektra that my parents gave me for Christmas my sophomore year in high school. I still remember my excitement unwrapping it and rushing upstairs to my bedroom to put it on the phonograph. (The downstairs stereo was playing Christmas music.) One of those memories that remain exceptionally fresh even after many years.

Calvert, your note reminds me that one of the wedding presents we got -- from a Straussian friend -- was that same recording of Elektra, along with a score. Seemed a somewhat strange present for a wedding but we loved it. (I later gave him the score to Rosenkavalier, which, ahem, evened the score.)

ScottMorrison wrote:Calvert, your note reminds me that one of the wedding presents we got -- from a Straussian friend -- was that same recording of Elektra, along with a score. Seemed a somewhat strange present for a wedding but we loved it. (I later gave him the score to Rosenkavalier, which, ahem, evened the score.)

I certainly hope that your wife was an opera fan. Did you take breaks on your honeymoon to listen to a bunch of hysterical women screaming at each other over a noisy orchestra? Very romantic.

Eric said: "How is it possible for a person to be "bored" with classical/opera and then come to love, say, the operas of Berg solely because his peers find them seductive ? I don't see how he or she can just 'switch' his preferences like that. Where is (or was) the inner listener through all of this ?"

Well, I won't expect that you will like my answer or even likely understand it but, simplistic as it might seem, my answer is, "because they have a need to fit in." This is not every single teenager you understand (a loner like yourself would not fit that mold). Actually, I can pretty much put myself in that category. I was bored to death with classical music, even the arias my soprano mother used to sing, till the right peers happened to come along at the right time in my life. I really didn't care all that much for the music but I wanted to "fit in" and look what happened to me!

Now we can go on and on about this but without boring the rest of these good people to death with a subject that really needs to be cussed and discussed face-to-face, I think this is about all I have to say on this subject at this time.

I hope this helps.

homo aestheticus wrote:

mogliettina wrote:Well, I won't expect that you will like my answer or even likely understand it but, simplistic as it might seem, my answer is, "because they have a need to fit in."

So without those peers coming along you believe that your musical tastes would not have changed ?

Question:

Would those people still feel the need to "fit in" if they truly considered themselves both intelligent and nice-looking ?

Eric: I don't want to be rude so I will answer these last two questions but beyond that, it is an impossibly involved discussion to simply go back and forth on a forum so this will be "it" for me.

"So without those peers coming along you believe that your musical tastes would not have changed ? "
I don't know the answer to that question. I would hope they might but then again, they might not.

"Would those people still feel the need to "fit in" if they truly considered themselves both intelligent and nice-looking?"
Once again, I can only speculate but my opinion would be that the majority of teenagers don't really have the security of believing they are intelligent and good looking. The few who do have that security are more likely not to be part of a peer group to begin with and might prefer being loners (like yourself.) Just my opinion.

End of discussion.


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The only part of the Mahler Seven that hasn't really won me over is the finale. Not that it's bad but it just doesn't live up to the previous movements, especially the first movement which is one of my favourite things by Mahler.

Ali: I bet that, as a quondam piccolist, you're just terrified of that funny little passage with all those flutter-tonguing flutes.

Seriously, a lot of musicians and critics feel the finale represents a falling-off in musical worth; I don't hear it that way, probably because my taste is too vulgar! Mahler gets criticized for quoting Die Meistersinger, but for me it's no more blatant than Brahms's near-quotation of the Beethoven 9th in the finale to his own 1st.

SD Symphony premiere of a new children's piece: Behold the Bold Umbrellaphant.

I've heard the MIDI realization of Lucas Richman's score -- with recitation by children's poet laureate Jack Prelutsky -- and it's a delight. The official world premiere is this Sunday.

pczipott wrote:

The only part of the Mahler Seven that hasn't really won me over is the finale. Not that it's bad but it just doesn't live up to the previous movements, especially the first movement which is one of my favourite things by Mahler.

Ali: I bet that, as a quondam piccolist, you're just terrified of that funny little passage with all those flutter-tonguing flutes.

Seriously, a lot of musicians and critics feel the finale represents a falling-off in musical worth; I don't hear it that way, probably because my taste is too vulgar! Mahler gets criticized for quoting Die Meistersinger, but for me it's no more blatant than Brahms's near-quotation of the Beethoven 9th in the finale to his own 1st.

I first heard Mahler VII in the Solti/Chicago recording, and it just blew me away: certainly as effective a piece as V or VI. I've never considered VII to be inferior in any way, just problematic for some conductors. Luckily, we had Bernstein & Solti back then, and now Abbado. I do wish Ben Zander would record the piece. IOW I agree that the finale is quite impressive, and not in any way a let-down.

I'm with Peter on the Mahler 7th evaluation. This work has always struck me as one of the composer's finest gems and though I vacillate on this issue, I rank the 7th in my top three favorites of his symphonies.

November 19th, at Carnegie Hall, Eschenbach and the Philadelphians will play this work for me. Yum!!!!

On another subject, has anyone heard the new CD by Cecilia Bartoli entitled Sacrificium??
She is indeed a musical miracle and I have been blown away by this remarkable singer.