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I would not deny that Michael Jackson was an extraordinarily talented performer who had an impact on the pop music industry as great as Elvis or the Beatles. But his weirdness went beyond eccentricity into the realms of the Deeply Disturbed, and I am convinced that the man was a pederast and a sexual predator. I find disconcerting the idolization of such a twisted, freakish creature.

I think that, in the immediate aftermath of his death, people are focusing on Michael Jackson the entertainer. I don't think that his reputation will shed the many disturbing aspects of his personal life. But his influence as a singer/dancer as well the impact of his music videos are undeniable in the industry. I also think that so many people grew up with his albums and videos that there is a great deal of nostalgia out there. His death has caused many to recall their own younger years. But, I'm sure that the dichotomy of the man vs the artist will be discussed for many, many years. Not much different than how Wagner is viewed today.

kashania wrote:I think that, in the immediate aftermath of his death, people are focusing on Michael Jackson the entertainer. I don't think that his reputation will shed the many disturbing aspects of his personal life. But his influence as a singer/dancer as well the impact of his music videos are undeniable in the industry. I also think that so many people grew up with his albums and videos that there is a great deal of nostalgia out there. His death has caused many to recall their own younger years. But, I'm sure that the dichotomy of the man vs the artist will be discussed for many, many years. Not much different than how Wagner is viewed today.

Ditto, my friend. Well said.

I'm with Cal on this one. Thriller makes me slightly nostalgic for the eighties, and my younger, juicier self, but only momentarily. All the adulation pouring out for someone whose life was studded - you should pardon the expression - with so many allegations of child molestation is just distasteful, to say the very least. Grown men do not sleep with little boys, as he freely admitted to in televised interviews. Little boys are not puppies - who was he kidding? There can't be that many rumours and allegations without some basis of truth. Yech...

As far as the comparison to Wagner! Jackson wasn't nearly the artist, and Wagner wasn't nearly the freak, silk underwear notwithstanding.

Brunnie:

Well, I wasn't making such a direct comparison to Wagner. I was thinking less about Wagner's weird personality than his racist and anti-semetic views. People have been debating those views as they pertain to the overall appreciation of the man the same way that people will try to reconcile Jackson's artistic talent with his disturbing love of young boys.

Like you, I don't believe his affection for boys to have been innocent love. He was a deeply disturbed and sick individual.

As for comparing their talents, it's apples and oranges. Personally, while I love many MJ songs, I don't own a single album of his, whereas have many Wagner recordings. And no MJ song can come close to achieving the effect that Wagner's music has on me. But MJ's influence on pop music over the last 25 years is probably comparable to Wagner's influence on the composers who came after him.

In that case, what the hell are they all going to be saying about Levine when his time comes?
Jackson's an icon, like it or not.
Levine will be one too.
Wagner is definitely one.
End of story.

I have managed to avoid 99.99% of all things Michael Jackson, and feel none the poorer for it. The global hyperbole surrounding his demise is another illustration of the pervasive need for humanity to be distracted by the trivial.

That's not to say that I regret his premature death, as well as the psychological torments he seems to have inflicted on himself (and possibly on others); however, the ability of people to whip themselves into weeping hysteria over this, while ignoring events of far greater significance, gives one pause.

But it is what it is. Why is everyone so surprised at this overshowing?
Remember John Lennon?
Remember Elvis Presley?
Remember _______ (fill in the blank)

Pepper:

Elvis had more talent and didn't have so much surgery his nose threatened to come off. Elvis at his peak had more talent (listen to his Sun Years recordings).

Either way, too much publicity for any celebrity.

Oops

That should have been, "That's not to say that I don't regret his premature death..."

This is why we physicists always keep a pocketful of minus signs, to apply as needed in emergencies.

I doubt that Michael Jackson (the artist) will be discussed for many, many years at all – certainly not in a century and a half (like Wagner).

Jackson was primarily a performance artist; his songs (alone) simply aren’t strong enough to stand the test of time. For example, how many Jackson songs have been recorded by other top-line artists in the past 25 years? Answer: Between none and not very many. His work (brilliant though it undoubtedly was at times) didn’t really influence those that followed him to any great extent.

If Jackson is to be compared with figure from classical music, I would suggest it would be someone like Paganini – a venerated figure to-be-sure but certainly no Wagner.

Yeah, kashie, I do realise that you weren't making a direct comparison to Wagner. I was just being cranky, eh! Partly because the worldwide hysteria over his death just seems like such a pathetic phenomenon. Any excuse for an outpouring of maudlinity. Maudlinness? Maudlination? (Is there a noun form for maudlin?) It's knocked the crackdown in Iran right off the news.

The guy could dance fer shure, but I think Fred Astaire had the most beautiful body in the world. How it worked! Music in motion!

Gene Kelly t'warnt no slouch either!

The global hyperbole surrounding his demise is another illustration of the pervasive need for humanity to be distracted by the trivial.

And to be connected, however vicariously, to a Celebrity. This particular form of social dementia first broke out on epidemic scale with the death of Ditsy Diana, whose demise set off that embarassingly maudlin national orgy of hysteria and out-of-control group mourning in England that almost had the peasants decapitating the Queen because she respectfully declined to weep on television. That was the moment when Great Britain lost one of its most admirable traits - the classic "stiff upper lip" and the reluctance to slobber ones feelings all over others - and descended to the level of American pop culure where the highest form of expression is an emotional strip-tease act characterized by TMI (Too Much Information).

We already know far too much about Michael Jackson's pathetic, twisted personal life. Alas, in the coming weeks (years, maybe? God help us!) we are going to learn far more, much, much more than any healthy person should want or tolerate.

I agree, but I date the phenomenon's origins much earlier. Hysterical response to musical superstardom may have begun with Paganini and Liszt (or with the castrati??). And hypertrophic mourning is probably of very ancient origin; mass frenzy at the loss of the local potentate probably reflected real fears of the future in a menacing environment. Those early drives have mutated (or been distorted) by the modern forms of celebrity, of course, including the commercialism that forces the major media to pander to such events in the interest of sales.

Certainly, mass hysteria/mourning has been around as long as there have been large groups of people living together. I was referring to the Vicarious Celebrity strain that is strictly a product of the television/internet age.

Or starting with Valentino's funeral hysteria.

Valentino's passing resulted in a song written almost overnight by a Tin Pan Alley songsmith called "There's A New Star In Heaven Tonight"...I wonder which of our pop artists will be the first to come out with a memorial ditty for MJ? Perhaps Elton John will revise the lyrics to "Candle in the Wind"..."Goodbye America's rose?"...nah..."Goodbye Moon-Walking Man -Child?" Your guess is as good as mine...and likely a lot better