Current Discussion (Off-Topic Chatter)

Re: Current Discussion (Off-Topic Chatter)

Postby brunnhilde on 13 Jul 2009, 07:36

I went to a wedding recently and a lovely time was being had, social chitchat, catching up with various relatives and friends.

Then the band started playing, and it was like an audio weapon had descended. Even when screaming at the top of my voice, I couldn't be heard by my dinner companion and vice versa. It was painful, unless I had my fingers in my ears. And at that volume, you couldn't even hear individual instruments - it was just a wash of sound. Requests to turn down the volume were met with an irritated gesture and a very minimal adjustment. It would have been appropriate, maybe, for a football stadium, but not for a medium-sized reception hall. Why do they do it? :x

I left early.
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Re: Current Discussion (Off-Topic Chatter)

Postby mogliettina on 13 Jul 2009, 08:32

SPECIAL TO JAMIE:
Now you can do way better than that! Can't you?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/stage/2009/ju ... in-musical
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Re: Current Discussion (Off-Topic Chatter)

Postby kashania on 13 Jul 2009, 10:19

Add me to the chorus of those whose ears are assaulted at virtually every event where there is amplification. The worst is the example that Brunnie provided. At least at a movie, even if the volume is twice as loud as it needs to be, one's ears eventually adjust. But at social settings, where the band insists that their sound should overwhelm all those before them, it is beyond nerve-wracking. What is the point of having to shout over the background music? At least at a movie, there is no conversation to drown out. It's intersting that all of us who are complaining about this are fans of live opera and classical music, where we rely on acoustics, and not the wattage of the speakers, to hear.
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Re: Current Discussion (Off-Topic Chatter)

Postby mogliettina on 13 Jul 2009, 11:09

As Calvert mentioned, it is all about "conditioning." People "think" mikes are needed. People "think" everything has to be shouted to be any good (see "American Idol"). Mikes are rarely needed in the majority of venues and the one place you'd think they'd be needed is in the monstrous Metropolitan Opera House. But no! That's what good acoustics are all about.
Several years ago I was making a speech in a rather small room and the mike went dead. Everyone started attempting to fix it. I stopped them. I stood aside of the mike and spoke loud and clear, "Can you all hear me?" Of course the answer was a resounding, "yes."
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Re: Current Discussion (Off-Topic Chatter)

Postby karlhenning on 13 Jul 2009, 11:43

mogliettina wrote:As Calvert mentioned, it is all about "conditioning." People "think" mikes are needed.

How can you feel like a star, if you're not amplified?

Cheers,
~Karl
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Re: Current Discussion (Off-Topic Chatter)

Postby mogliettina on 13 Jul 2009, 11:58

karlhenning wrote:
mogliettina wrote:As Calvert mentioned, it is all about "conditioning." People "think" mikes are needed.

How can you feel like a star, if you're not amplified?

Cheers,
~Karl

Exactly! :?
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Re: Current Discussion (Off-Topic Chatter)

Postby karlhenning on 14 Jul 2009, 05:21

The poetry of men and the sea.

[ link ]

Cheers,
~Karl
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Re: Current Discussion (Off-Topic Chatter)

Postby karlhenning on 17 Jul 2009, 08:09

Rhapsody in Carotene

[ link ]

Cheers,
~Karl
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Re: Current Discussion (Off-Topic Chatter)

Postby karlhenning on 17 Jul 2009, 08:10

(I note that the carrot is mic'd.)

Cheers,
~Karl
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Re: Current Discussion (Off-Topic Chatter)

Postby mogliettina on 17 Jul 2009, 09:09

karlhenning wrote:Rhapsody in Carotene

[ link ]

Cheers,
~Karl

Kaypee miluv:
Don't these pronouncements more properly belong in the threaded or non-threaded classical music boards? These are certainly not off-topic. ;)
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Re: Current Discussion (Off-Topic Chatter)

Postby calvert on 17 Jul 2009, 10:42

This is a continuation of a discussion on the Opera page:
lulu wrote:calvert:

But that negligence still killed 50 people. I don't think the families of the dead really care one way or the other. Getting in a car while drunk is not negligent homicide but murder. Unless it's self defense, murder is murder. Whether it's by "negligent homicide" or deliberate, 50 people are still dead.


No, it is "negligent homicide." Just check out the criminal code of any state in the U.S. For example, here is Section 19.01 of the Texas Penal Code:

§ 19.01. TYPES OF CRIMINAL HOMICIDE. (a) A person
commits criminal homicide if he intentionally, knowingly,
recklessly, or with criminal negligence causes the death of an
individual.
(b) Criminal homicide is murder, capital murder,
manslaughter, or criminally negligent homicide.


As my criminal law professor said in my first year in law school, "Homicide just means producing a corpse." But "producing a corpse" - even a lot of them - is not necessarily criminal homicide. (As my professor further observed, "Doctors are in the corpse-producing business, but we don't usually throw them in jail.") What distinguishes one corpse-production from another, criminally speaking, is the intent of the corpse-producer. For example, what you call "self-defense" the law calls "justifiable homicide." It is not a crime because the actor lacks mens rea, or criminal intent. Similarly, the various degrees of homicide - 1st, 2nd, and 3rd (which includes manslaughter and negligent homicide) - all reflect differing degrees of criminal intent or culpability. "1st Degree Murder" is the most severely punished because it is committed with "malice aforethought," or advanced planning (or special circumstances like a homicide, whbether intentional or not, committed during the commission of a crime). That is why it is the only homicide offense that carries the death penalty. "2nd Degree Murder" involves intent to kill, but it is not premeditated: a "road rage" killing is an example of this, or the husband who finds his wife in bed with another man and shoots the man. "3rd Degree Murder" does not usually involve any criminal intent at all, but some lesser mental state, such as extreme negligence amounting to "conscious disregard" for human life, that is deemed sufficiently culpable to warrant criminal sanction. Causing death while DUI falls into this category. So does a mother who leaves her 1-year old baby unattended in the bathtub while she goes to the store for some cigarettes, and the baby drowns. (She's a lousy mother, but not "evil.")

The point of all this is not legal quibbling, but rather to address the more fundamental question - raised by your comments on Pinkerton - of what we call "evil." To me, "evil" is a term that should be reserved for really bad acts done deliberately and with the intent to injure. DUI does not fall into that category, IMO. It is bad, certainly, but not "evil." For the same reason, I do not regard Pinkerton as "evil." Throwing the term "evil" around lightly diminishes the concept and dilutes the meaning. (And the grief of the survivors, BTW, is irrelevant to the degree of the offense. Yes, "dead" is "dead," but how the deceased got dead makes all the difference in terms of the degree of moral culpability, or "evil.")
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Re: Current Discussion (Off-Topic Chatter)

Postby mogliettina on 17 Jul 2009, 11:04

To me, Iago represents the epitome of evil. When he was alive, Maestrissimo and I used to have an on-going controversy about who was the more evil, Iago or Claggart. For the very reasons cited by Jamie in the previous post, I still maintain that as rotten-to-the-core as Claggart was, Iago beats him out by a country mile.
(Ouch! Was that a rusty star thrown from above?)
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Re: Current Discussion (Off-Topic Chatter)

Postby pczipott on 17 Jul 2009, 11:27

Pinkerton's callousness is a form of evil, but a lesser one than the fully intentioned joy Iago takes in destroying people. Pinkerton uses Butterfly for his own pleasure, without thought for her needs, which is bad. Iago uses people for his own pleasure, but his pleasure takes the form of destroying them on purpose, which is even worse.
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Re: Current Discussion (Off-Topic Chatter)

Postby A.C. Douglas on 17 Jul 2009, 11:28

mogliettina wrote:To me, Iago represents the epitome of evil. When he was alive, Maestrissimo and I used to have an on-going controversy about who was the more evil, Iago or Claggart. For the very reasons cited by Jamie in the previous post, I still maintain that as rotten-to-the-core as Claggart was, Iago beats him out by a country mile.

In terms of incarnate evil, Iago places a far second to Claggart. In fact, he's not even in the running. There's practical purpose and the expectation of direct personal gain behind Iago's evil actions, but Iago himself is not evil; merely a morally corrupt human being. Claggart, on the other hand, is almost a very definition of incarnate evil (Evil). Claggart acts solely and exclusively to destroy the good wherever he finds it simply because it's good and for no other reason. If that's not evil incarnate then nothing is.

ACD
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Re: Current Discussion (Off-Topic Chatter)

Postby karlhenning on 17 Jul 2009, 11:31

mogliettina wrote:
karlhenning wrote:Rhapsody in Carotene

[ link ]

Kaypee miluv:
Don't these pronouncements more properly belong in the threaded or non-threaded classical music boards? These are certainly not off-topic. ;)

Well, I thought the power-tool in the clarinet carrot video might argue for non-classical ; )

Cheers,
~Karl
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Re: Current Discussion (Off-Topic Chatter)

Postby mogliettina on 17 Jul 2009, 11:56

"Claggart acts solely and exclusively to destroy the good wherever he finds it simply because it's good and for no other reason. If that's not evil incarnate then nothing is."

Totally disagree with this.
AFAIAC: Claggart has one extremely good reason, and not just simply because it is "the good"! He's after that good lookin' sailor's bones. In my opinion, that is what guides his, what you call "evil" ways. I don't necessarily think he leads his entire life that way. Maybe he's one mean SOB but that is a far cry from blatant evil in my book. Nope, don't buy it.
Iago, on the other hand, is admittedly just plain ol' out n' out evil incarnate to the point that it drips out of him, and he even boasts about it (probably as a result of something that happened in his mother's womb.)
Of course, I doubt highly that either of us is going to change our beliefs based on these posts, so we'll just have to agree to disagree and let it go at that.
(Your last word, friend?) ;)
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Re: Current Discussion (Off-Topic Chatter)

Postby A.C. Douglas on 17 Jul 2009, 12:05

mogliettina wrote:Totally disagree with this.

AFAIAC: Claggart has one extremely good reason, and not just simply because it is "the good"! He's after that good lookin' sailor's bones. In my opinion, that is what guides his, what you call "evil" ways. [...] Of course, I doubt highly that either of us is going to change our beliefs based on these posts, so we'll just have to agree to disagree and let it go at that.
(Your last word, friend?) ;)

I'm perfectly willing to agree to disagree on this matter and let you have the last word. However, just for the record, I did NOT say anything about "evil ways" in respect of Claggart. I said that in respect of Iago. Claggart has no "evil ways." He's simply Evil incarnate as I've already asserted.

(Oops. Did I just have the last word? :twisted: )

ACD
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Re: Current Discussion (Off-Topic Chatter)

Postby calvert on 17 Jul 2009, 12:15

Well, let's face it, Iago and Claggart - and Hagen and Scarpia and Pizzarro and Melitone - are all pretty bad actors. (Just kidding about Melitone.) If forced to rank these evildoers, I am inclined to agree with ACD that Claggart is at the top - but only by a whisker. But at this level of nastiness, rankings are somewhat academic.
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Re: Current Discussion (Off-Topic Chatter)

Postby calvert on 17 Jul 2009, 12:20

mogliettina wrote:AFAIAC: Claggart has one extremely good reason, and not just simply because it is "the good"! He's after that good lookin' sailor's bones.


That's an interesting motivation, and certainly not implausible, but there is nothing in the text (or the music) to support it. I don't think Britten - or Melville, for that matter - were particularly interested in Claggart's motivation; his animosity towards Billy is just a given. Dramatically, he operates as Billy's foil.

FWIW, I never felt that Shakespeare was that interested in Iago's motivation for wanting to destroy Otello. Yes, there is the business about being passed over for promotion, but we hear nothing about it after the Act II colloquy with Rodrigo. In the play, there is also Iago's racist resentment of Otello as a black man - the "thick-lipped savage" and the "black ram tupping [Desdemona's father's] white ewe" - who outranks him, and a passing reference to a suspicion that Otello had slept with his wife, Emilia. But none of these "motivations" have much to do with the drama. Shakespeare was frequently more concerned with dramatic conflict than he was with plausible motivations for the conflict. The Winter's Tale is a good example of this, where Leontes' jealous rage has no plausible motivation at all. It just happens, we take it as a given, and move on from there.
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Re: Current Discussion (Off-Topic Chatter)

Postby mogliettina on 17 Jul 2009, 12:40

calvert wrote:
mogliettina wrote:AFAIAC: Claggart has one extremely good reason, and not just simply because it is "the good"! He's after that good lookin' sailor's bones.


That's an interesting motivation, and certainly not implausible, but there is nothing in the text (or the music) to support it. I don't think Britten - or Melville, for that matter - were particularly interested in Claggart's motivation; his animosity towards Billy is just a given. Dramatically, he operates as Billy's foil.


Interesting. Then tell me this: Where in the music or text does it ever say that Posa has a case on Don Carlo? Because he tells him he loves him? Preposterous! Yet it is constantly mentioned by opera people that such may just have been the case.
So if, in fact, that is the case with Claggart, then the dubbing of "evil" kind of diminishes into something entirely different. I don't actually think of Claggart as evil at all.
A mean-spirited SOB of the first order? Indeed, yes!
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